Date: February 22, 2012

 

Attendance

Board Members

            Present: Scott Webber, Jim McCann, David Decker, Jason Hicks, Joe Nicoloff and Gary Kluckman,

            Absence:  Donald Austin excused.

            Quorum Present: Yes

 

Others Present

            Holishor Members Present  16

            Glenn Dalton and Michelle Smith from Holishor Office

 

Proceedings

Meeting called to order at 7:30 PM

Pledge of Allegiance Recited

 

Minutes of February 8, 2012

Action: Jason Hicks motions to approve the minutes of February 8, 2012, Gary Kluckmann seconds, Dave Decker, Jim McCann, Gary Kluckmann vote nay.  Jason Hicks and Joe Nicoloff voted yes

Minutes where not approved

Discussion:  Dave Decker as my policy I will not vote on minutes not included in the board packets.  Jim McCann comments on the dramatic change in the format of the minutes.  Very different from what has been done in the past.  Joe Nicoloff one big problem with last meeting minutes was trying to classify “conversation ensues” felt it was best to type a verbatim that way there is no question.   Conversation ensues

 

Transfers of Property report submitted by Angie Basham

 

Treasury Report

Given by David Decker

Action:  Gary Kluckmann motions to approve the treasury reports, Jim McCann seconds.

Motion Carries

Discussion.   Dave Decker thanks Jim O’Brien for fixing his computer.  No real significant issues on the report.  As part of the finance committee meeting last night there was some further conversations with The Bank of Edwardsville in regards to their CDARS program and a couple of their other programs to allow us to insure that the rest of our funds are fully insured.  Dave will review the documents. Also have the proposed budget for 2013 that will be reviewed over the next few weeks.  Three significant items, reduction in expense on Holiday Times, no dollar amount allocated for engineering fees for 2013 and reduction in real estate taxes, due to the effort by the office and board member for north property tax reduction.  Jim McCann asks about geobags and the money used for the recertification on the silt basin.  Glenn Dalton says we should not let the Certification on silt basin lapse, it will cost more.  This is just a renewal fee.  Jason Hicks ask if we can exploit both geo bags and the silt pit simultaneously.  Glenn Dalton, yes depending on where we are working. Dave Decker recommends table more discussion until the next meeting.

Conversation ensues

 

 

Correspondence

Letter from Laura Scaturro (1716) requesting that approved board of directors meeting minutes that are currently published in the Holiday Times.  Suggests that the approved minutes also be posted on the official Holiday Shores website under its own category within 48 hours of the minutes being approved.  Suggests that the board actions such as changes to rules, bylaws or covenants be highlighted, etc.  to draw attention to the change.

Read by Joe Nicoloff

Action: Discuss in New Business

 

Scott Webber has three bids for carpet cleaning.  Dependable Cleaning Services, Balke, Cardinal Carpet Cleaning.  Dave Decker asks when this needs to be approved.  Glenn Dalton states whenever.  Dave Decker asks that the bids be put in a comparison, rather then the board trying to figure out the cost at the meeting, organize it.

Action:  none

 

Old Business

Covenant Vote – Scott Webber 648 members have not voted.  Need to decide on how to press forward on this.  Cost for an additional mailing $1500 to $2000.  List names in the holiday times. Website, facebook.  Include it in the annual meeting packet. 

Jason Hicks, would anyone want to create a committee.

Dave Decker, the idea of posting it on the web page, is no cost.  Can post on facebook referencing the website, pretty simple, low cost, quick to the community effort. 

Jim McCann since we got the list, wasn’t aware of who had/hadn’t voted.  Has talked or sent emails to 7 people and 6 have taken care of it.  In some cases thinks that people have just forgot or overlooked it.

Pam Maibaum (2088) Can we use signs at the entrances with the office times to maybe remind them.  Glenn Dalton, depending on what events are coming up.

Jim McCann a lot of people thought the end time to vote was January 1st, 2012; there is no end time to vote.

Laura Scaturro (1716) Can we take the list of 648 and break it up and have some volunteers make phone calls to these people.  Scott Webber we have had volunteers and committee chairs do some of them, and got around 200 votes. Phone numbers provided.

Conversation ensues.

 

Annual Dues & Assessments Drawing

Scott Webber asks Jeanine Votruba to come forward to draw the name. People who have paid by February 14 each year are eligible for the drawing.

Winners – Samual & Thea Bailey.

 

Annual Meeting

Jason Hicks several bylaws have clerical errors, and did not require a vote.  We discussed these minor clerical changes with the association attorney to make sure we were covering all bases; we have been trying to go through the bylaws in its entirety found some issues where there were references to sections from other sections that were out dated.  There is one section that needs to be relocated for coherence and logical sake.  The bylaw will not change, just the location.    Jason Hicks reads the proposed bylaw changes.

 

(Existing #2)

ARTICLE III – MEMBERSHIP

Section 1 – Membership:

E. Non-Member Family: Adult children or other family members residing with a member or members constitute guests of the member and must abide by all Rules and Regulations of Holishor Association, Inc. pertaining to guests and otherwise.(5-20-06)

 

(Proposed #2)

Remove from the ByLaws of Holishor Association, Inc. and replace with the section “Classes of Membership”, subsection “Resident” under Holishor Association, Inc. Rules.

 

Discussion: Jason Hicks there are classes of membership kind of scattered throughout, some in bylaws, some in rules.  So what the bylaws committee did take all of these throughout the community instruments and create a section for the rules called Classes of Membership and it includes anybody who should be out here.  There will still be two classes of membership that will stay in bylaws member owners and renters.  This really will clean things up.

Conversation ensues.

 

(Existing #6)

HOLISHOR ASSOCIATION, INC.

FINES AND PENALTIES FOR VIOLATION OF RULES AND REGULATIONS

LEVEL 1 INFRACTION – Violation of specific Holishor Association boating rules and regulations.

9.  Pontoon boats and sailboats operated Holiday Lake shall not exceed thirty (30) feet in length.  All other watercraft shall not exceed twenty-two (22) feet in length.  ALLWATERCRAFT REGISTERED WITH THE HOLISHOR ASSOCIATION PRIOR TO JANUARY 1, 1989, SHALL BE CONSIDERED EXEMPT FROM THIS RULE.

 

(Proposed #6)

 

9.  Pontoon boats and sailboats operated on Holiday Lake shall not exceed  thirty (30) twenty-eight (28) feet in length.  All other watercraft shall not exceed twenty-two (22) feet in length.  ALLWATERCRAFT REGISTERED WITH THE HOLISHOR ASSOCIATION PRIOR TO JANUARY 1, 1989, SHALL BE CONSIDERED EXEMPT FROM THIS RULE.

 

*Note that this is a long-standing typographical error in the allowable length of pontoon boats and sailboats.  No change in the length of any watercraft is being proposed.

 

Discussion:   Jason Hicks the first change is the word “on” just so it flows better.  The second change 30 feet to 28 feet, which we believe is a Scribner’s error.  It is the understanding that it has been enforced as 28 feet for a very long time over a decade.

Action:  Scott Webber asks for a motion to put Part 3 – By laws, Fines and Penalties for Violation of Rules and Regulations Section 9 as proposed on the Annual Meeting Agenda.

Jim McCann motions, Joe Nicoloff seconds

Motion carried.

 

 (Existing #7)

ARTICLE III – MEMBERSHIP

Section 1 – Membership:

I. Failure to Pay Dues and Assessments: The failure of any member to pay annual dues, assessments, fees or other charges as required by these Bylaws shall cause an immediate suspension of such member’s rights and privileges.

Annual membership cards, auto decals or boat decals, shall not be issued until all dues, assessments, fees, or other charges as required have been paid. (5-16-81)

 

(Proposed #7)

I. Failure to Pay Dues and Assessments: The failure of any member to pay annual dues, assessments, fees or other charges as required by these Bylaws shall cause an immediate suspension of such member’s rights and privileges.

Annual membership cards, auto decals or boat decals Guest cards and/or decals shall not be issued until all dues, assessments, fees, or other charges as required have been paid. (5-16-81)

Revised during discussion:  Any Identification cards and/or decals shall not be issued until all dues assessments, fees, or other charges as required have been paid (5-16-89)

 

Jason Hicks what this does is since the membership doesn’t issue membership cards, auto decals anymore, just removes it to clean up the wording.  It does include guest cards and decals this just updates that.

Dave Decker should “guest cards” be changed to “id cards” makes it more generic.

Scott Webber asks for a motion to put Article 3, section I, Failure to Pay Dues and Assessments as proposed on the Annual Meeting Agenda.

Jim McCann one of the things Jason has been trying to over the last several months is to clean up the verbiage so that different words aren’t used through the community instruments.

Laura Scaturro (1716) prefers the word “guest” rather than just “identification”

Conversation ensues

Jim McCann motions, Gary Kluckmann seconds.

Motion Carried

 

(Existing #8)

ARTICLE III – MEMBERSHIP

Section 1 – Membership:

 

J. Lot Mowing: Each property owner, resident or non-resident, shall maintain his lot or lots up to and including the area between the lot line and the hard surface of the road, free of excessive weeds, brush or other growth.  In the event any property shall be permitted to remain un-mowed and such grass, weeds, brush or other growth shall attain 10 to 15 inches in height, the Association shall have the right, without notice, to mow the same at the expense of the owner.  The expense of mowing shall be billed to the owner, and shall be due and payable promptly upon receipt of such billing by the owner.  Failure to pay said billing shall result in the Association filing liens.  Lien fees and interest charges shall be levied as provided under Article IV, Section 5.

 

(Proposed #8)

ARTICLE III – MEMBERSHIP

Section 1 – Membership:

J. Lot Mowing:  Property owners shall maintain their lot(s) up to and including the area between the lot line and the hard surface of the road.  In the event any property shall attain excessive weeds, brush or other growth exceeding 10 inches in height, the Association shall have the right, without notice, to mow the same at the expense of the owner.  The expense of mowing shall be billed to the owner, and shall be due and payable promptly upon receipt of such billing by the owner.  Failure to pay said billing shall result in the Association filing liens.  Lien fees and interest charges shall be levied as provided under Article IV, Section 6.

 

Discussion

Jason Hicks again this is just cleaning up the verbiage, and caps the height to 10 feet.

Dave Decker would like to see these formatted the same way as the other proposed changes.

Jim McCann per our conversation with our attorney this would not need a vote at annual meeting and is just a cleanup.

 

Pam Maibaum (2088) Is there notice to the person before you go in and mow, and how do prove that the lot is over 10 inches.  Sounds like you included easements.

Glenn Dalton replies that it is documented, we go out to the lot and take a picture with a ruler.

Dave Decker – members own the easements and are responsible for the care of them.

Laura Scaturro (1716) Owners will be given the bill and to be paid promptly, how long is promptly.  Glenn Dalton mowing bills are to be paid within 2 weeks and is outlined on the bill as well.

Conversation ensues.

Action :  None will be discussed at the next meeting.

 

Proposed #9 and Proposed #10 – do not require actions just a Scribner’s error.

 

(Existing #11)

 

ARTICLE V – DIRECTORS

Section 1 – Board of Directors:

The property and business of the Association shall be managed by its Board of Directors consisting of seven (7) directors, all of whom shall be members in good standing, at least twenty-one (21) years of age.  In the case of multiple memberships by virtue of co-ownership of property in the association, only one of such members may serve as Director at any given time.  Each director shall serve for a period of three (3) years. At each annual meeting, members in good standing shall elect the number of Directors equal to the number of Directors whose terms then expire.  No person may serve as a Director and at the same time have any business or economic relationship with the Association, whether as an employee, vendor, contractor, or otherwise.  Such economic relationship shall include the spouse, co-resident, or dependent of the Director.(5-21-05)

 

(Proposed #11)

 

ARTICLE V – DIRECTORS

Section 1 – Board of Directors:

The property and business of the Association shall be managed by its Board of Directors consisting of seven (7) directors, all of whom shall be members in good standing, at least twenty-one (21) years of age.  In the case of multiple memberships by virtue of co-ownership of property in the association, only one of such members may serve as Director at any given time.  Each director shall serve for a period of three (3) years. At each annual meeting, members in good standing shall elect the number of Directors equal to the number of Directors whose terms then expire.  No person may serve as a Director and at the same time have any business or economic relationship with the Association, whether as an employee, vendor, contractor, or otherwise.  Such economic relationship shall include the spouse, co-resident, or dependent of the Director.(5-21-05)

Any business or economic relationship with the Association, whether as an employee, vendor, contractor, or otherwise, may be allowed based on the following contingencies.  The aforementioned relationship shall pertain to the Director, their spouse, co-resident, or dependent.

-          Such business or economic relationship can be proven to be the result of a fair and diligent selection process, and any monies transferred between parties is consistent with fair market value.

-          Any continuing business or economic relationship is approved no less than annually by a majority vote of the Board of Directors.

-          The Director with whom the potential relationship exists is temporarily removed from their position as Director during any such business related to the relationship.  Any discussion on their part at such time(s) is strictly in the context of a member of Holishor Association, Inc. and any vote on said issues is recorded as an abstention. 

 

Discussion

Jason Hicks what this does, it would allow a business relationship to exist between either a board or their spouse or a co-dependent as long as those criteria are met. And what that is intended to do is not preclude someone from a business venture a business relationship based on their choice to volunteer to help the community.  Helps locate businesses within the community. 

Scott Webber I understand the intent, but this is the exact reason we are in a battle with the state of Illinois.  This is what produced the Common Interest Community Association Act. 

Jason Hicks that is why there is added contingencies.

Jim McCann the reason it was added in 2005 was at the time we were short board members and could get no one to volunteer to be on the board and a husband and wife were on the board of directors at the same time. At the time also was a board member had a business relationship with the board, didn’t think that a board should be put in the position to approve purchases from someone who was serving on the board. 

Joe Roth (1030) I don’t know why the board would want to go this route, you guys are accused of enough that you don’t even do, would be opening yourself up to areas you wouldn’t want to.

Dave Decker agrees with Joe Roth.  This is the first that he has seen of this proposal, I disagree with it 100%, as Joe said we are already accused of things, there is no better way to keep out of that, than to not even allow it.

Conversation ensues 

Action:  Dies for lack of a motion.

 

(Existing #12)

BYLAWS ATTACHMENT 001

SHORELINE EROSION PREVENTION – HOLIDAY SHORES LAKE

 

These requirements are promulgated pursuant to the pollution and siltation restrictions of the Holishor Association Bylaws contained in Article III, Section 2, Paragraph H.

 

(Proposed #12)

Remove “Bylaws Attachment 001 Shoreline Erosion Prevention – Holiday Shores Lake” it its entirety.  This section has become outdated and redundant based on Bylaws Article III, Section 2, Paragraph M and the Holishor Association Building & Architectural Requirements.

*Note that references to this change will be reflected throughout the community instruments.

 

Discussion: 

Jason Hicks  some of the items for this document itself are erosion control structures, deposits, structure maintenance, etc.  All these items are covered other places within the Community Instruments.  

Jerry Theodore (1346) that document is the document that made seawalls mandatory and even identifies lots that don’t require protection which  was some lots way at the end of the cove, so if you eliminate that.  Is sure that is the bylaw that put seawalls in place.

Joe Nicoloff you are correct Jerry.

Scott Webber one of things on this document having traveled to a number of different lake association, there were a few lakes that we visited, that were very proud of their roads, public safety, but when you looked at their lake it was 4ft deep, because they had no erosion control.

Conversation ensues.

Action:  Tabled till the next meeting.

 

(Existing #13)

HOLISHOR ASSOCIATION, INC.

FINES AND PENALTIES FOR VIOLATION OF RULES AND REGULATIONS

LEVEL 1 INFRACTION – Violation of specific Holishor Association boating rules and regulations.

 

Penalty – Written warning

A violation of any one of the following rules is a Level 1 Infraction:

1.                   The Holishor member is responsible for the actions of any person within/on the member’s watercraft at all times. Any guest operating a watercraft on Holiday Lake must be informed of and acknowledge understanding of the Boating Rules and Regulations prior to operation of any watercraft. No guest may operate a watercraft on Holiday Lake unless they are accompanied by a member or have in their possession a valid guest pass.

 

(Proposed #13)

HOLISHOR ASSOCIATION, INC.

FINES AND PENALTIES FOR VIOLATION OF RULES AND REGULATIONS

LEVEL 1 INFRACTION – Violation of specific Holishor Association boating rules and regulations.

 

Penalty – Written warning

A violation of any one of the following rules is a Level 1 Infraction:

 

1.                   The Holishor member is responsible for the actions of any person within/on the member’s watercraft at all times. Any guest operating a watercraft on Holiday Lake must be informed of and acknowledge understanding of the Boating Rules and Regulations prior to operation of any watercraft. No guest may operate a watercraft on Holiday Lake unless they are accompanied by a member or have in their possession a valid guest pass.  The host member is responsible for educating the unattended guest to the Boating Rules and Regulations prior to operation of any watercraft, and they must have in their possession verification of passing the State of Illinois Boating Safety Class or a photo ID indicating that they are at least 18 years of age.  They must also have in their possession a valid identification card issued by the Association office authorizing their status as an unattended guest.

 

Discussion:

Jason Hicks so what this does it actually includes the same verbiage that pertains to unattended guests using member’s watercraft.  There was a problem with section on class of members was discussed regarding the guest being informed and acknowledging, understanding and how that was going to be accomplished. 

Dave Decker is this a bylaw.

Jason Hicks  yes.

Jim McCann actually this whole section is the boating rules, at one time the board was not allowed to issue fines unless it was voted on by the membership and because the boating rules gave the office the ability to issue fines it had to be voted on therefore it  part of the bylaws. 

Conversation ensues.

Shelly Jansen (1766) questions the mention of the boating safety class.  Are we holding the unattended guests at a different level than we are own residents. 

Jason Hicks your child would fall under a class of membership called resident.  Unattended guest would have to provide two forms of identification upon request one being the registration card issued by the Association and the other a valid drivers license that they are 18 years of age or proof of boating safety class.

Scott Webber to make it simple, yes we are holding unattended guests to a higher standard than Holiday Shores residents.  State law is 12 years of age and we are making 18 years of age, exceeding state law.

Jerry Theodore (1346) These will get ran by the attorney.  There was a specific reason that it was that way.

Scott Webber with the Common Interest Act everything becomes community instruments.

Alan Campbell (325) Is there a difference between A level offense and level 1 offense.

Jason Hicks  A level offense is considered minor infraction where property or safety is not in jeopardy. 

Conversation ensues.

Action:  Will send to Attorney, Tabled till next meeting.

 

(Existing #14)

 

       9.  Pontoon boats and sailboats operated Holiday Lake shall not exceed thirty (30) feet in length.  All other watercraft shall not exceed twenty-two (22) feet in length.  ALLWATERCRAFT REGISTERED WITH THE HOLISHOR ASSOCIATION PRIOR TO JANUARY 1, 1989, SHALL BE CONSIDERED EXEMPT FROM THIS RULE.

 

(Proposed #14)

 

       9.  Pontoon boats and sailboats operated on Holiday Lake shall not exceed thirty (30) twenty-eight (28) feet in length.  All other watercraft shall not exceed twenty-two (22) feet in length.  ALLWATERCRAFT REGISTERED WITH THE HOLISHOR ASSOCIATION PRIOR TO JANUARY 1, 1989, SHALL BE CONSIDERED EXEMPT FROM THIS RULE.

 

*Note that this is a long-standing typographical error in the allowable length of pontoon boats and sailboats.  No change in the length of any watercraft is being proposed.

 

Action:

Scott Webber: asks for a motion to present to the membership Holishor Fines Penalties violations of rules regulations level 1 infractions item 9 as submitted.

Dave Decker motions, Jim McCann seconds

Motion Carried

 

Discussion

Jason Hicks this may also change what based on what Mr. Gerber finds with the other duplications as well.  Four pages of stuff in this section and apparently a lot of it is duplication. 

Jim McCann this may have to go back to the bylaw committee for discussion and research then check with Gerber, then bring back to the board.

Conversation ensues  

 

New Business

Holiday Shores Open House

Scott Webber Holiday Shores Open House, tentatively scheduled for Sunday April 29th 12:30 to 3:30.  Host a Holiday Shores event on real estate.  To pay for the North end property.  This event will include the Fire Department, Ski club, Social Committee, Youth Committee.  Goal is to sell approximately 20 lots.   

Jim McCann various real estate agents in the area will be asked to have a booth out here as well.  FNB to come as well.    

Laura Scaturro (1716) Likes the idea of the open house, maybe people can sign up for tours. Would also like to suggest that the board allow people to put for sale signs in there yard for that day only.

Scott Webber would have to put some thought around the idea of signs in the yard. 

Dave Decker  The goal of this open house is to pay off the North Property, feels that should be the primary focus of the open house

Joe Nicoloff you are going to have realtors here with booths anyway, you know they are going to have information on houses for sale in the community.

Roger Rawson (1851) Thinks it is a wonderful idea, however 3 hours seems like a too short a period.

Joe Roth (1030) If you allow for sale signs, seems like your opening yourself up.

Dave Decker Real Estate open house signs may be posted on the day of the event and must be removed at the conclusion of that day’s event.  Open house signs may only be posted on Saturdays and Sundays. 

Pam Maibaum (2088) Do we know how many lots or houses that are not owned by Holishor but owned by members that in a state where they are behind in dues? Understand that there is a great debt that is owed, but thinks that people will not understand that.

Dave Decker the office knows the number.

Shelly Jansen (1766)  Something we have done on the yard sale each is you have to pay to be on the map.  What if we did the same thing, you could pay to have your house or lot highlighted on the map.

 

Correspondence from Laura Scaturro previously read earlier

Scott WebberSo you want to improve the minutes.  The hardest job on the board is the secretaries.  Holiday Times is to generate revenue through ads and not for 25 pages of minutes, the minutes you have to take a couple of comments to capture the essence of the conversation.  To post them on the website, would mean creating two sets of minutes. 

Laura Scaturroimprove the communication, need to make sure we capture person name lot number and a caption of what was discussed.  Against two set of minutes.

Jim McCann currently what we approve is what goes into the Holiday Times.

Dave Decker personal opinion of putting the minutes on the website, doesn’t have an issue with that.   Once approved has no issue with putting them on the website. 

Glenn Dalton advises that a link was broken on the website, but the minutes have been posted there for years.

Joe Nicoloffwe will still use the recorder.  We have a court reporter who has volunteered his time for two meetings, to see how we would like the minutes.  We would have to approve two sets of minutes.  Have tried to do the minutes several different ways, either want additions or not that much information, very difficult to do.

Scott Webber – agrees one set of minutes.

Dave Decker – would we send him the minutes or would volunteer be at the meetings.

Joe Nicoloff he would be at the meeting.

Jim McCann from my prospect, verbatim minutes we are hoping you didn’t make any mistakes.  Has a hard time approving verbatim minutes, because now validating everything without having the tape to make sure you captured everything.  Minutes are supposed to be a record of what was done and not said. 

Conversation ensues.

Open Floor

Jason Hicks  would like to thank everyone for coming out.  The best attendance he has seen at a board meeting.

Roger Rawson (1851) Thanks the board for all their efforts.  Property lines, has had two lots physically surveyed  and anything beyond my stake line towards the association property is association property.  Talking about easement.  Since my property doesn’t include ditches, is the association going to maintain ditches.  

Glenn Dalton doesn’t have the exact verbiage, but it is indicated in our verbiage that you are to maintain up to the road rightway to the road.  That is a current topic being discussed as part of the road plan.

Shelly Jansen (1776) would like to discuss rule change that was passed at last meeting.  The main question is the process of rule changes, proposed rule changes must be made and written form when a motion is made and a second proposed, discussion ensues, the board will suspend voting on the motion until such time as the proposed rule or change has been posted to the Association Website and displayed in the Association office for 4 weeks.  How is it that this rule got voted on and passed when it just now has shown up in the last week on the website and on facebook?  There are a lot of variations on this rule throughout the last 6 months.

Wondering how us as community members, not able to attend every meeting, how can we look at these minutes and decide what is being voted on and when it is being voted on.

Has a problem with someone getting the same facilities as I get for $25 per year.

Dave Decker the rules were followed for a period of 4 months.  Recommends coming to the meeting, as stated if you are reading the minutes in the holiday times, they are a month behind.

Jim McCann the reason this rule was put into place, it was designed for Board members, so when it says it must be in written form, board members would come to meetings, propose a rule we didn’t know what it was, would have to try and write it down.  This rule was originally posted, and there have been discussion and changes to this.  Changes are sometimes made the day that it is voted on, and then 60 days before effective, you get to see it and what was approved by the board.  Understand how someone would think that we didn’t follow the rules, the rules are for us so we have a set way to do this, if you don’t choose to come to the meeting, there is nothing we can do about that.  There is no way to get everyone to come to the meetings.  You have the right to come to a meeting and make comments, and rules can change.  Every time a rule changes the 60 day clock starts over.

Scott Webber all rules since 2005 have gone through the same process.

Shelly Jansen (1776) reads that the purpose of this process is to allow association members adequate opportunity to comment on the purposed rules or changes.   This rule was voted on before it was set and final.  Didn’t have a problem with the original version that was $600 per year, but has a problem with $25 per year.

Jim McCann we have discussed for 4 months have had 4 months to come to a meeting to voice your opinion.

Dave Decker asks if Shelly is familiar with the member designee rule.  This rule replaces that rule. 

Jim McCann this actually puts restrictions the number of people that can be put on the member designee list, more restrictive than the member designee rule is.

Shelly Jansen (1776) more restrictive yes, but this appears to be more like a membership than a guest. Doesn’t understand what the need is for this.  When you put a price on something, give them a card, call it a membership. So they are no longer a quest of someone that lives here, your giving someone a membership for $25, have a problem with that.

Dave Decker exactly right, the whole purpose of the rule was to make it a class of membership.

Jason Hicks  its type of guest that is categorized as a type of membership, it’s under the same subsection as an attended guest. It is more restrictive, and does also benefit the community by providing a source of income potentially.

Shelly Jansen (1776) so we are taking the people who were following the rules before, putting the names on a member designee list, those are the only people who are going to come forward pay that $25, so we are penalizing the people who were following the rules before, making them pay and taking away some of their rights.

Dave Decker  so which is it, taking something away or giving something, so on one hand complaining that restricting it and on the other giving

Shelly Jansen (1776) thinks it is a bad idea all the way around.  Can say both things, goes against the people who were following the rules before and can say that it is going against us who pay $675 per year, you are giving them the same benefits for $25.  I can say both.

Scott Webber what the purpose was to take the member designee moved it into a class of membership and combined other classes of membership and made it more restrictive.  Some board members wanted a price tag on this because the view it is as a value there should be money there. 

Conversation ensue

 

Laura Scaturro (1716) Seems like it would be better for a final version of a rule change be posted for 4 weeks if possible.  Was it put on the front page of the website so that people did know that this rule was being talked about for four months and was updated?

Scott Webber we post in the holiday times and the holiday times is available on the website.

Dave Decker what Glenn had said that the minutes are being posted on the website under their own section fairly quickly.

Jim McCann thinks there is a valid point to having a section on the website were proposed rules would be.

Pam Maibaum (2088) I understand your interpretation of the rule, I think it is more for the membership benefit to have the time to review what you are doing.  I think it would be a better benefit, slowing the process down, benefited more people, and started the clock now we have the final document.

Scott Webber knows that this will be irritating to hear but this is the boards meeting, not the members meeting, the members’ meeting is the 3rd Saturday in May.  This is a board meeting, not a membership meeting.  We are here to conduct business of the Association.  The rules of this meeting are extremely strict. They have always been open to membership ideas.

Pam Maibaum (2088) understands for the purpose of this meeting.  In a greater prospective your job is to serve the property owners and hopes that it would be in the best interest of the board that you act in the majority.  A lot of people didn’t know this was going on.  If hadn’t been following and hadn’t attended the meeting what you guys finally decided on was nowhere near what was posted prior.  To benefit as many members as possible why not start the clock once you have the finalized document.  If during the 60 days, if membership doesn’t want it, it can be changed.

Jim McCann yes that is why it is a rule.  Rules can be changed at any time.  If we get enough feedback and feel there is a need to change it, then we can change it and the 60 day clock starts over. 

Pam Maibaum (2088)  The one problem I have with this rule is  5 people at $25 each then each of those 5 people gets to have 10 of their people that I as the member don’t necessarily know who they are,  do I have to name them at some point.  That at a member concerns me.  I don’t have a problem with the 5 unattended guests, you know them and allow them to operate on the lake under your liability, another 50 people, would never do that.

Jason Hicks under the current member designee each member allowed 10 and unlimited guest.  Hopes that what will happen is that members scrutinize who the put on their list. 

Pam Maibaum (2088) was not aware of that.  I am worried also about the liability aspect of it. 

Conversation ensues

Henry Halverson (1829) comments on the new guest membership rule, likes the fact there is a cost and that it is more restrictive.  A lot of people have a problem with the wording.  Doesn’t like the additional 10 people that the guest member can bring.  Trying to accommodate to people who are coming out and using the facilities without the member, in the members interest to have the lake for the membership that are paying to be out here.

Jeanine Votruba (493) Thanks Scott for pointing out that this is a Board of Directors meeting and we as members are guests here attending the meeting.  I pay $675 per year; this is a private association and lake, and not in favor of the new rule.

Joe Roth (1038) agrees with Jeanine, should be for membership only; do away with all the guests.  Jason has done a great job getting all this work done.   Is the nominating committee and need more people to step forward and run for the board.  Just call him or Peggy.

Chris Martinuessen (323) I think this really points out how flawed the member designee rule is.  This rule clarifies what can be done, and before it was just assumed what could or couldn’t be done.

Alan Campbell (325) Agree with most of the comments.  Thinks we can do a better job communicating with the community.  Unattended guests, moved here to be part of this community in 2001, because it had good benefits, nice people, nice community.  The unattended guest, to be here without member any time they want and use any facilities that they want. I think the board should really consider the unattended guest and remove it. 

Jason Hicks appreciates everyone’s feedback and comments on this.  Wants to point out that there is opportunity to present new business at the annual meeting if you find that it is that important to you.

James Cunningham (552) confused about how to get this changed as a rule.

Jason Hicks The rule is in effect 60 days after approval then at that point a board member can make a motion to change this rule or revisit it again, and the process starts again.  Other options, at the annual meeting the simple majority would be able to change the rule of the membership as long as there is a quorum met or special meeting.

Scott Webber we can still amend this within the 60 days.

Jerry Theodor (1346) If people bring it up during open floor at the annual meeting at least they are making the board aware of their feelings, at a later date you could act upon that.  At a later date, petition for a new bylaw.

 

Conversation ensues. 

 

Jim McCann motions to adjourn to executive session, Jason Hicks seconds. 

 

Meeting Adjourns at 10:57 p.m.