††††††††††† Quorum Present: Yes
††††††††††† Holishor Members Present 15
Meeting called to order at
Pledge of Allegiance Recited
Section 1 Ė Membership:
Adult children or other family members residing with a member or members
constitute guests of the member and must abide by all Rules and Regulations
of Holishor Association, Inc. pertaining to guests
Potential Rule Change
Section 2 Ė Rights, Privileges, Duties and Obligations:
F. Voting Rights: Each membership, except those based upon rental of property within Holiday Shores, shall be entitled to one (1) vote, provided, however, that such right to vote has not been suspended. (9_24_94 )
"Membership" means the collective group of members entitled to vote as defined by the community instruments.
"Membership" means the collective group of members as defined by the community instruments.
VI Ė ANNUAL
Section 7 Ė Manner of Voting:
Voting Rights: Each membership, except those based upon rental of property within Holiday Shores, shall be entitled to one (1) vote, provided however, that such right to vote has not been suspended. Only members in good standing shall have the right and privilege to attend and/or participate in any duly called meetings or a vote of the membership. Membership standing and voting eligibility shall be determined as of the day seven days prior to any annual or special meeting
VI Ė ANNUAL
Section 7 Ė Manner of Voting:
Voting Rights;, Members as defined in Article
Shelly Jansen (1766)† †Is membership based on voting? There was something in covenants that defined membership as someone who could vote.
Dave Decker there are memberships out here that do not allow voting.
Jason Hicks ††There is a direct correlation today between a property owner who has the right to vote and a membership and that is making it very difficult to create classes of membership who donít vote.
Scott Webber. †What this change does will enable the board to create a class of membership.† Bylaws state that members vote on increases and if the covenant changes it will be even stricter.
Ballot 5 - Budget
Associate Member persons who legally reside with a member and/or immediate family of a member are entitled to all privileges of membership except the right to vote, serve on the Board of Directors, or register any type of watercraft.
Dave Decker so the rule as you just presented it is the second step of what we were just talking about with the bylaw and definitions and what that does is start allowing the non-lot owner residents to have access to Holiday Shores Facilities and amenities.† We have had a lot of discussions about the member designee rule and what rights and privileges that has been utilized by membership over the last 6 or 7 years.† I want to make sure that as we go through this, we incorporate those privileges that have been enabled with to move forward.† With that being said, we need to get this started, as you stated earlier there are members whose children have lost privileges just in a short period of time. My goal would be to pretty much have this thing lined out so that if the ballot at the annual meeting passes, that we can quickly rectify the situation and reinstate those privileges.
Dave Decker personally no issue whether it is two or one.†
Basically the old member designee rule.
Jason Hicks I think that is a little misleading calling it an associate membership because it is limited to watercraft only.† It doesnít really extend the membership privileges just one privilege.† Trying to justify this in my mind the first step is to say that people who donít live out here donít reside out here to put them on the lake, when we have all these other amenities.† Associate member are you going to just give them lake, and make another class of membership for non-watercraft.† I didnít agree with member designee all along.
Dave Decker we need to have something to replace the member designee rule, we have conversation many times, 93 people who utilized the rule, have had people say they donít want people out there and more people say they do.† In these discussion they have went from not allowed out there to charging them on a daily basis to donít charge them at all, restricting to the lake, to let them use everything, historical we have had something in place to allow for that to happen, we need to allow that to continue, because it has not been an issue.
Patty Kelly (867) I live on Fishersí Man Cove and everyday picking up trash along the lake.† People who live out here that have an investment out here do not appreciate what they have out here.† If we let all of these non-residents come in here.† We are going to be living in a sewer shortly, our property values are going down, assessments are going up, and will have a bunch of outside people come in and trash our paradise.†
Jim McCann more people are utilizing the lake, more people are vacationing at home.† Also picks up trash and doesnít even live on the lake.†
Jason Hicks has issues with very little supporting information whether we should do this or not based on security reports or trash.† Personally trying to make a point of what is best for membership in general.† Do they buy property out here expecting to have that privilege?† Concern is that lake usage has increased, with that may come additional pollution, silt and additional trash.†
Joe Roth (1030) appreciates the board for giving the membership the opportunity to share their opinions.† 18 year olds are adults.† I donít think that that after 18 years they should only be on the lake without a member.†
Jason Hicks there has to be a starting point and an ending point.†
Shelley Jansen (1766) thinks that the cut off at 18 is kind of silly, if it hasnít been an issue before.
Jason Hicks that is part of what we are trying to get fixed. Conversations have been had that residents will have some sort of privileges.
Scott Webber as a board member we cannot knowingly violate a covenant; our indemnity goes completely out the window.† By the mere fact that we turn a blind eye and let things go, allowing non-members on our lake violates a covenant.
Jim McCann an example we have heard how Joe Roth feels about this, so Joe sees my son on the Lake and Joe decides to make an issue out of it and file suit in Madison County, right now if we were to work under your premise and allow that the indemnification that all the board members share would be gone, and I could be sued personally and loose my house, because I turned a blind eye to that.† We also asked our attorney this very question tonight.† Willful neglect.
Ray Garber (1822)† one point that needs to be taken into consideration is how many people in addition to what we have could be out there, keeping in mind that a lot of people didnít even know about the member designee thing exists.††
Don Austin most of what is being said we have beat to death in meetings already.† What I would like to see is that we have the obviously Resident members and family 18 years and older, kids are staying home longer than they used to any that legally reside with you.††† Immediate family needs to be decided people who are family that donít live with you.† Associate membership could be people who do not have any family relationship out here at all basically the old member designee.
Laura Scaturro (1766) Give them five and have to be kept current each year when you get your boat decals.
Jim McCann not everyone has a boat registered.
Scott Webber this one wouldnít be limited to just water.† They would have full use privileges, all amenities.
Roger Rawson (1851) I think you are pretty much zoning in on what needs to happen.† The five because you have to do something, got to cover it with all this litigation.† The realistic fact is that people get all worked up about it, when in fact 90% of the people donít even know what it is or abide by it.† But the rule is there to cover it. So just do it, get it where you think it will fit good.† The enforcement part of, its tough to cover everything at one time.† Simplify it.† Everyone on the list should have a Illinois Boaters certificate.
Scott Webber members are still responsible for these associate members and guests, liable for any penalties and fines.
Dave Decker† Need to allow for those five people to be able to take people with them.
Scott Webber Ė Associate members, members in good standing shall be able to provide a list of no more than 5 individuals to the Holishor Association Office who are permitted to use all amenities.† Members are still responsible for the actions of these associate members and their guests and are liable for any penalties and fines.
Jason Hicks for how long?† Does it up it need to be updated, or is it perpetual?† Can they change it one time a year, or every week?
Scott Webber. Good with the per year, makes it more restrictive.
Jason Hicks So they would be able to have guests. Disagrees with that.
Dave Decker what is being proposed is simplify it down to 5 people regardless if they live here or donít live here.
Shelley Jansen (1776) would this include an option for a variance if someone needed 6? What if you made it good for a year.† Have to have your names in by the last payment is due.
Jim McCann everything has an option for a variance.
Joe Nicoloff† Associate Member Ė a member in good standing may register 5 individuals in the Holishor Office who are permitted to use all facilities.† This membership is limited to 5 guests.
These designees must be 18 years of age or if 12 to 18 must have a Illinois Safe Boaters Certificate.† Members are still responsible for these designees and their guests and are liable for any penalties and fines levied as a result of their actions.
Jim McCann needs to be in writing before motion that we can see it.
Dave Decker is in agreement that the rule should have x number of people and x number of guests.† Some may not be boaters.†
Gary Kluckman is for the one rule.† Each member can have 5 guests. Would like to see 6 guests each, likes even numbers.†† Would like to see that restricts on the guests of Associate members.
Would like to see it run from January 1 to December 31, calendar year.
Jason Hicks questions this particular solution, because over simplification isnít always the way to go.† Will not rush this through, just to satisfy.†
Shelley Jansen (1766) understands where Jason is coming from.† We went from having multiple classes and putting them all into one.† Thinks that when you try and combine someone who is a resident in the house that may not meet the criteria to be a member with people who are guests or other relatives that donít live out here, that may be where the problem as far as the residents out here having a problem with it, because a lot of people have kids living with 18 years and older that live in their house, but those same people may or may not want people outside of their home to have rights out here.†
Dave Decker we have to publish the rule for membership to be able make comments on it, so that after the annual meeting we can pass a rule to solve the problem.
Holiday Shores Volunteer Fire Department Signs
Action:† Jim McCann makes a motion to allow the H.S.V.F. D to put up signs for their annual fish fry on May 4th,† Joe Nicoloff seconds
Jim McCann motions to adjourn, Joe Nicoloff Seconds
Meeting Adjourns at 9:12 p.m.