††††††††††† Present: Jim McCann,
††††††††††† Quorum Present: Yes
††††††††††† Holishor Members Present 12
††††††††††† Glenn Dalton and Michelle Smith from Holishor Office
Meeting called to order at
Pledge of Allegiance Recited
Transfers of Property Ė report
6 new transfers and 4 new members.
Annual Meeting Recap
77 members present. All Bylaws passed.
Ballot 1 (Failure To Pay Dues & Assessments) Passed 74-3
Ballot 2 (
Ballot 3 (Level 1 Infraction) Passed 75-2
Ballot 4 (Membership Definition Change) Passed 63-12
Ballot 5, (Budget for 2013) Passed 76-1
Holishor Association recognized Kevin Suttles with the Corey McConnell Award for his work with the Tiki Bar Bass Club, kids, lake and contributions made.
Holishor Association recognized Nancy Dallas with a plaque for her help with the new gate signs.
Jim McCann: states that the new sign at the main gate looks great and matches the gate signs.
Board of Directors Ballot-
At executive session new
officers were appointed: Jim McCann-President,
Changes in Hearing Committee
are: Jim McCann-Chair,
Ray 1820: Mentions since the dredge is normally used in May, and now it looks like it will be June, their might be some savings with fuel that is not being used right now.
1101 Total Votes with 616 from ballots and 485 from proxies.
Jim McCann states that they hit a spurt on voting and it has flattened out again and that it is truly an issue for us.
SB 3572 passed in the Senate
and moved on to the house. This is the bill that is going to add amendments to
the Common Interest Community Association Act or CICAA, which we fell victim to
on January 1st of this year. A group called ACHTA out of
Associate Member Rule
Jim McCann: At the annual meeting the membership rescinded the bylaw on adult family members, thereby opening up our ability to create a rule to reinstate a long standing process that most of us have lived under since weíve been here, whereby our family members that lived with us were still allowed to be treated as members and was not as guests as was the case in 2006 when that particular bylaw was passed. When we realized back in September that parts of our rules and bylaws were violating our covenants, the board starting taking action. We have been doing so since September of last year and we are now down to the short version of where weíre at.
David Decker: States that they want a full board when they vote. They are two board members shy tonight and are hoping to vote on this at the next meeting.
Jim McCann: Shelley Jansen had requested a rule she had proposed to the board be added to the minutes.
Mentions rule that they are considering is posted on the Holiday Shores website for viewing.
Shelly Jansenís Proposal:
RESIDENT class of membership: anyone legally residing in the home of the member. ( I think it needs to be worded this way to cover people that just have lots out here, so their kids are covered as members) This person(s) would have full amenities rights under the umbrella of the member, who could and anytime suspend these rights by placing their name on a list at the office. This covers our adult children, and anyone else living within the home that the member deems fit to have membership rights under the umbrella of their membership.
GUEST MEMBER: (drum roll please) a person that a member chooses to let use their GUEST MEMBER card.
GUEST MEMBER card: Each membership may *purchase* (cost of the waterproof card and a floating lanyard) ONE GUEST MEMBER card that they may loan out to any ONE person that they choose at a time. Think of it like a key to your house. You loan it out, you get it back. This ďkeyĒ card will be golden. People wonít loan it out to just anyone. The card will have the membersí information on it, name, lot number, phone number and any other pertinent information that anyone deems necessary. Also think of this card as a ďsurrogate youĒ, meaning itís as if you are there, so the person carrying the card can have guests as long as they remain together. So donít put a number on the number of guests they are allowed, think of it as an extension of a memberís membership, therefore having the same rules apply to them as far as guests are concerned. Liability and actions of this GUEST MEMBERSHIP and their subsequent guests are placed on the member who owns the card.
Slow Moving Vehicle Rule
David Decker: The rule that was read at the last meeting was the original. That was shown to the public safety committee back in October and was revised based upon their recommendations.
Jim McCann: Concerns are slow moving vehicles being registered. I think our roads are as precious to us in some ways as our lake is to us. Theyíre obviously used by more people and if weíre going to allow something that is unlicensed on our roads, at the very least we need to know who they belong to and who is driving them. I knew we were going to have to figure out a way to register them and inspect them because there are stipulations under Illinois state law that are required on the vehicles. There has been a lot of conversation about this. Some members are a little bit confused. People think we are allowing kids to drive golf carts up and down our roads or go carts or motorized scooters and that is not the case at all. The purpose behind this is State Legislature has allowed communities such as ours who have roads with speed limits under 35 mph to allow members to use golf carts, atvís, or any other slow moving vehicles. One requirement is they have to be a licensed driver aged 16 or older. To the people out there that are concerned, in no way is the board trying to sanction their behavior. We are trying to comply with the state law. It also requires certain equipment that honestly, we have no control over. Some people were also concerned about the list of equipment. The only one on here that I question is the turn signals. I know most atvís have lights and brake lights and Iím assuming they have turn signals as well , maybe not, but the slow moving vehicles that you can actually purchase now are basically fully equipped. I donít know that we need to have turn signals included as part of this particular rule. I think thatís something we should consider. There are kits out there that are available to people to bring their smv up to state law for a small cost and if they want to use them on the roads I donít think itís unreasonable for us to require them to be safe. They also have to have the smv triangular plaquard on the back of them designating them as slow moving vehicles. Another requirement is signs at our gates cautioning people that slow moving vehicles are used in our subdivision.
Don Austin: I would like to see you add one statement on there. Go carts are not allowed on the roadways. Mentions seeing young kids running go carts up and down the street.
Jim McCann: We do reference IL. state law and they have very specific statements as to what an SMV is.
Don Austin: If your going to qualify what vehicles your going to run you ought to qualify the ones that are not allowed as well.
Jim McCann: The only issue I see is if we forget one, it could come back to haunt us. It will ultimately be up to the board what we allow and what we donít. Maybe we ought to have a list of exclusions.
Will be put up on the website so people can get an idea of the rule.
Gary Kluckman: I like the idea. I donít like having atvís running on the streets out here. I think there is more opportunity for yards being tore up, more vandalism.
Jim McCann: People are doing this now. Basically this rule isnít going to legitimize that. Smvís are restricted to a specific speed limit under the state law, I believe itís 25 mph. All of our speed limits out here are 25 mph. They still have to follow the speed limit. If they jump off onto a members property they are going to be held civilly liable.
Gary Kluckman: What are you going to do about the North Property? Four wheelers going to be going up on the north property?
Jim McCann: Honestly that has nothing to do with the SMV rule.
Gary Kluckman: states he worries about what happens when there are two or more together at a time.
Brent Mandorca Lot 106: Iíve seen these atvís. I live right over by Behmeís. I see them coming down Southwood Shore, down Elm Drive, down St. James where the speed limit is actually 40, which they donít belong out there, but their there. They come whipping down Southwood Shore across the empty lots, theyíre behind Behmeís, cross the runoff up the empty lot by my house, making tracks through all the lots, fly up there to get gas, then they come right back through there. They are loud, noisy, doing wheelies. Itís going to happen if you let this pass. They are going to be running wild. Atvís are dirt bikes. Always have been. Your not going to allow dirt bikes, I donít see how you can allow ATVís.
Mike Colyott Lot 40: I have a hard time with the concept of an atv being a slow moving vehicle. I have yet to see one that is moving slow. Looking back when I was young, I was more inclined if you gave me an opportunity, I was going to take it. I think the message it may give some people is that it is ok. Just some food for thought.
Anthony Harrell Lot 560: I have a utility ATV not too far, maybe a quarter of a mile outside of Holiday Shores. We have a farm where we plant some flowers, we hunt there. I transport a little trailer on my ATV. I go maybe 10-15 mph; pull my equipment between my house and my farm. If you ban ATVís, this law is pertaining to people over 16 legally driving the speed limit. This doesnít give permission for kids to run through the yards, but it does make me legal.
Jim McCann: Another item I got a lot of calls on is the cost of the registration is 40.00. Now I understand in my conversations with other board members that was going to include the placard that has to be placed on the back of the atvís as part of the cost, but I do feel like Iíve seen some pushback from members and their feeling that cost is too high. This is the first time when this came out before the last meeting that I had seen any cost attached to that and while most of the people that attend these meetings know Iíve been a proponent of allowing the association to generate revenues from fees and Iíve not hidden from that, this number even scares me a little bit I have a hard time with a 40 dollar annual fee. We give boat stickers out, thatís part of the membershipís dues and assessments right now. But 40 dollars just seems extravagant to me and I really believe we should strike that sentence before we post it because it I donít think that itís going to survive and I donít know that we need to throw gasoline on a fire by posting it like that.
David Decker: I would say if we believe there is any possibility of there being a fee associated with it, then you need to have that line there and some amount. There was discussion about what the initial cost was, nobody was significantly tied to that number.
Shelly Jansen Lot 1766: One thing that nobody has mentioned is, I donít own either vehicle that you are discussing, I was just wondering if they have speedometers? And if they do or if they donít how would we ensure that they would be abiding by the speed limit?
Gary Kluckman: Golf carts donít have speedometers. Maybe 10 or 20% of four wheelers have them. Weíre not.
Jim McCann: Your not going to get a golf cart over 25mph.
David Decker: Having a speedometer on a piece of equipment doesnít allow us to enforce their speed limit.
Jim McCann: We have the means to know if their driving too fast. They just need to drive in a reasonable fashion.
Pam Maibaum Lot 2088: With regard to the fee, if your going to put a number in there, would it be reasonable to think that the triangle that we need to put on the back, thatís something that needs to be purchased every year or is that once. Maybe change the wording to say the first year to cover the cost of the smv placard, the fee is such. Maintenance after that, then itís something else. Or at least if your going to put it out there exactly how it is, write the word annually in there cause I donít think it says that right now.
Jim McCann: Itís permanent.
Joe Nicoloff: I donít think this has really been read into the record yet.
David Decker: This version has not.
David Decker: As far as us supplying anything, I donít think that says that in here right now and I donít think we really want to do that. I think if weíre saying that placard is required, then that would be part of it. Needs to be on the piece of equipment as part of the safety inspection we talked about, which I believe is still part of this.
Joe Nicoloff: The safety inspection is also part of the fee we were talking about.
Glenn Dalton: The sticker and the time to do the inspection is part of it.
Joe Roth Lot 1030: I agree with Dave, if itís required by the state I donít think we should be paying for it or it shouldnít be in that fee. The placard that youíre talking about, is that not a state requirement? I donít think Holiday Shores should be paying for it. You donít pay for the fire extinguisher or paddles on my boat.
Jim McCann: Yes, thatís a state requirement. That smv placard is required by state law. The purpose of the inspection is to make sure that their safe. The boats come under the jurisdiction of IDNR and we have had IDNR out here inspecting boats. Weíve offered that as a service in the past. This is something brand new and itís something that a lot of the members arenít familiar with. So I think initially anyway this may be something that we change down the road but we think initially the vehicles should be inspected and approved if weíre going to put a seal of approval on these. Weíve got to know they meet the specs the state requires.
Discussion of possibly changing pricing.
Slow Moving Vehicle Rule
For the purposes of Holishor Association, Slow-Moving Vehicles (SMVs) are defined as self-propelled, gas or electronically powered, four-wheeled motor vehicles that are federally unlawful for use on highways.† These may include low-speed vehicles (LSVs), golf carts, and all-terrain vehicles (ATVs).
SMVs must be registered with the Association annually.† The member must pass a safety inspection and show current proof of off-premise liability insurance to receive their annual registration decal and a ďslow moving vehicleĒ sign.† The cost for registration will be determined.
To operate an SMV on Holishor streets and parking areas, the vehicle must display a valid Holishor Association decal, the member ownerís lot number, and a ďslow moving vehicleĒ sign.† Lot numbers shall be at least three (3) inches in height and a contrasting color to the vehicle.† Placement of these items shall be on the rear of the vehicle in a manner that is clearly visible with or without passengers and equipment.
Illinois State laws pertaining to ďnon-highway vehiclesĒ must be followed, as well as all other Illinois State traffic laws and Holiday Shores Rules.† SMVs may not impede the regular flow of traffic. The driver must have a valid state-issued driverís license, and the vehicle must be equipped with functional brakes, steering, a rear-view mirror, headlights, taillights, brake lights, reflectors on the front and back, and a ďslow moving vehicleĒ sign in the rear.† Seat belt restraints are recommended, but not required.†
Reckless driving is when a person drives without consideration of/for the safety of people or property, whether intentional or unintentional.† This includes, but is not limited to, causing the vehicle to become airborne, ďspinning/sliding outĒ, or racing.† The reckless operation of motor vehicles is strictly prohibited and may result in fines, revocation of SMV registrations, and/or the suspension of the memberís right to use Association facilities.
Joe Nicoloff: I was thinking about removing the turn signals.
Jim McCann: states members have mentioned they donít think we should have turn signals.
Gary Kluckman: I would like to strike that out and the brake lights out. 90% of atvís donít have brake lights.
Don Austin: I donít think it makes a difference. Just publish it. We will argue that later.
David Decker: agrees about the turn signals.
Anthony Harrell Lot 560: In regards to the triangle, unless you guys are going to have a specific one that would identify you got that triangle from Holiday Shores, Iíd say strike that because you can go to Rural King, Iíve got it on mine. In addition to the triangle if you ride at all over in Missouri, you have to have a 3ft. orange flag like you used to put on your bicycle when you were a kid. I think thatís a good idea, just makes it a little more visible. I donít know if Illinois requires that, Missouri does
Jim McCann: The only thing Illinois requires is the triangle and they are very specific in the Illinois state law to the size and there is the one you get from rural king, normally is a regulation and I agree I donít want to be providing those. You can go to any number of places and buy those on your own. Just make sure their displayed properly.
Ray Garber Lot 1822:† Iím on the public safety committee and weíre trying to take and extend another privilege to people out here in Holiday Shores. Weíre trying to make it as safe as reasonable and if thereís something that we think as a membership or a board that we consider important in order to make it reasonably safe, and that might be a turn signal, flag or whatever, I think we should at least strongly look at that because after all, the people who are responsible to our membership and thinks we are legally liable, whenever we put anything into a rule.
Jim McCann: My understanding is that if we are in conjunction with the Illinois state law and smvís that we donít have any more liability than we already have right now.
Glenn Dalton: We canít make it less restrictive but we can make it more restrictive.
Shelly Jansen Lot 1766: A specific number on liability, was that mentioned? That might be something you want to put in your proposal.
Jim McCann: No, there wasnít and I think thatís something for the public safety committee to work out. I think it should probably be the same as it is for the boats. I agree there should be some kind of limit on the liability insurance on that. There will have to be a minimum amount.
For informational purposes only to be put on the website.
Jim: Mentions letter from Southwest Electric. In October they will be issuing a 9% rate increase on our electricity for everyone in Holiday Shores. They sent letters to everyone out here. Wants published in the Holiday Times.
Pam Maibaum Lot 2088: So much has been stricken and changed with the associate member rule. Can we say exactly what the membership reads in our documents now? Weíre trying to make an associate member rule to cover 18 year olds that live in our home that are no longer considered members and/or other people who donít live with us that we want to be able to use our amenities. Those are the two things weíre trying to cover right? Iím trying to figure out how it reads right now for the children in our homes that have turned 18. Pretty sure the answer is no but werenít they called guests? Just want clarification where weíre at so we know how to move forward. It seems like weíre trying to write one rule to solve two problems The first problem is adult children under this associate member rule. I have four people and my adult children would fall under one of those, is that correct? Weíre trying to write one rule to solve both those problems is that correct to say?
Jim McCann: Iíd say that was a pretty broad generalization but I think itís accurate. What your asking is since the bylaw was rescinded what impact does that have on members today who have 18 year old children living in their homes, who a month ago could not use the lake, can they use the lake now? They were called guests by the bylaw. Prior to that rule going into place family members who are living at home were considered members and basically could use the amenities of Holiday Shores without restriction as long as they did so following the rules. I think pursuant to what we found in the covenants, we might want to ask Mr. Gerber to give us his opinion because one of the things that he was trying to do and that we are trying to do with this is to protect the association and to make sure selfishly as a board of director member, by allowing anyoneís 18 year old on the lake, am I knowingly violating the rules and regulations thereby voiding my indemnity insurance and opening myself up to personal liability. Thatís why we started the class of membership back in September, because the board does have the right by bylaw to create classes of membership and if itís a class of membership then by bylaw they comply with the covenant. So I would say right now the answer to your question is your 18 year old canít be on the water unless youíre with them. I really canít answer further until we hear back from our attorney or pass the associate member rule. The idea is not only that we establish class of membership to accommodate our members; itís also to apply some restrictions to address the concern of some of the members to the traffic on the lake. Couldnít get on the ski club because they hit their limit and they couldnít allow anymore people on there. Do you understand what Iím saying? This was a clause in the new rule because it exists now in the rules.
Pam Maibaum Lot 2088: As a member of the ski club, my family, and this new rule doesnít solve the problem that the ski club has, which is that even if this rule passes it says right here you canít be a member of ski club. Itís been a very strange year with 20 new members.
Jim McCann: Please understand that all of our rules that we establish out here, a member can come to the board and request a variance and we have told the ski club in the past they too, on an annual basis, could come to the board with a list of names that they had to renew every year and get a variance and allow those people to be part of the ski club.
Pam Maibaum Lot 2088: Thatís fine as long as Monte can do that. Also, under the 4 associate members it says 5 guests with no more than 10 I think; do those 5 guests also have the right to drive your boat? Iím worried if we go two tiers below the member we are losing safety. Thank you.
Anthony Harrell Lot 560:† I was just online reading the first part of this rule. If Iím married, I own the house, I pay the dues, are my wife and child under that membership? She is not on the title on the house. Why would I need to put her on the title in order for me to constitute a family? Thatís what Iím concerned with. Donít you agree that is a little extreme?
Jim McCann: Then she is not. Sheís an adult. Are your kids under 18, yes, then they are fine. Wives in the past have always been fine but in September it was brought to our attention that our covenants dictate only members are allowed to use the lake. A member by definition is the dues and assessments paying person whose name exists on the title of your property. We will probably need to get some clarification as to whether your wife in all practical terms should be considered a member. I can tell you in the SECA law that I referenced earlier, specific clauses in there that talk about ownership and title, so I guess weíre falling back on that. Trust me weíre not trying to make this difficult for anybody. Iíve got kids that are adult children that have lived with me for a long time and that have never moved out and all of the sudden they canít go down to the beach unless Iím with them. That is our concern too. And this would give you a remedy for that to fix it. But she canít serve on the board of directors and she canít vote because technically that is only open to property owners and your wife is not a property owner, now you can remedy that by putting her on the title. In my case, my three kids and my wife are going to be my four.
David Decker: With this rule the way it is currently written, you could designate her as an associate member and that would take care of her. She would have full rights.
Shelly Jansen Lot 1766:† Iím confused as to why we are trying to condense this down into one rule when really this could all be remedied by creating class of membership that covered people living in your house. In saying that I wonder how many people are going to be affected by this, that would have to actually go into the office and put their kids or whoever lives with them on a list, that it could all be covered by saying they were a resident member or whatever you chose to do. I wonder how much extra work it is going to be for the office, how much extra work itís going to be for the people who are going to have to go in on a yearly basis and put people on a list, whereas I feel like my kid when he turned 18, all the sudden I have to put him on a list and I have two more up and coming to that age. It just seems like too much work instead of a class of membership.
Jim McCann: Even if you establish a class of membership, you as a member are already registered. We know all we need to know about you. I donít have a clue who your children are. I donít expect security to know who your children are. The idea behind this is two years ago we would have people say well Iím such and suchís friend or my aunt lives across the lake and she said it was ok. Honestly there was a time where that flew and that donít fly anymore. So we have to register. Youíre already registered. If we donít do it, itís going to be a problem. We have to have some way to control it, we need to know your name.
Shelly Jansen Lot 1766: And if youíre going to say that, what about everyones kids that are under 18? All of the sudden at 18 you donít know who they are? I think there are a lot more kids that are under 18 than over 18. Thatís just crazy. If weíre going to correct it, letís correct it.
James Cunningham Lot 552: How long before the rule that is posted comes into effect? And after that do we go back into the 45 day waiting period? Is that your intent to do that? Is that also going to include the workers out here too, in all fairness to them? Another thing is the no wake light, as it sits, is really hard to see if you are on this end of the lake because of the tree. I didnít know if that was being looked into?
Jim McCann: We had hoped to vote on it tonight but however as you see there are board members missing and like we said earlier we are not going to vote on it until we have a full board. We hope to have a full board at the next meeting. We donít want to knock out an entire boating season.
David Decker: We can make it effective immediately if we choose. Yes. This rule does not cover them. That is something we still need to address.
Jim McCann: Weíve looked into establishing other points on the water to put no wake lights for as long as Iíve been on the board, and weíve yet to come up with a solution for that, that we could monitor and control.
David Decker: Itís a state law whether our lights on or not.
Jim McCann addresses a motion to adjourn to executive session, Don moves, Joe Seconds
Meeting Adjourns at 9:00 p.m.
Meeting minutes submitted by Joe Nicoloff††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††