Date: October 09, 2013
Present: Joe Nicoloff, David Decker, Jason Hicks, Michael Parker, Darren Onwiler, Alan Huelsman, and Gary Kluckman
Quorum Present: Yes
Holishor Members Present 5
Glenn Dalton and Angie Basham from Holishor Office
Meeting called to order at 7:30 PM
Pledge of Allegiance Recited
Board Meeting Minutes of September 11, 2013
Jason Hicks motions to approve, Alan Huelsmann seconds.
Action: Motion carries with changes
Board Meeting Minutes of September 25, 2013
Dave Decker Motions to approve, Darren Onwiler seconds
Action: Motion failed, changes to be made.
Bills & Salaries
Jason Hicks motions to approve, Dave Decker seconds.
Action: Motion carries.
Profit & Loss
Discussion: Jason Hicks generally speaking our collection process for 2013 is coming along quite well. We do have a Finance Committee meeting coming up on Monday, we will be discussing the P&L and budget for this year, and for 2014. Ballroom contracts for this year do seem to be a little low this year. Questions if all of the road repair expenses are in.
Glenn Dalton advises we still have the storm water patches to be done and should be done within the next couple of weeks, and some pot holes to patch.
Transfers of Property
10 Transfers. Informational Only
Read by Glenn Dalton
Public Safety Report
Read by Glenn Dalton
28 total incidents and 7 citations written— 6 animal, 2 vehicle, 5 property, 4 people, 0 sheriff assists, 6 alarms, 5 lake incidents.
Jason Hicks motions to approve, Dave Decker seconds.
Action: Motion carries.
Building Committee Report - The Building Committee cared for 14 items at the September 17 and October 1, 2013 meetings. A permit for 1 shed, 1 fence, 1 deck, two porches, one house and a second extension for a house were approved. One variance for a shed was forwarded to the board for approval. 6permits were closed
Gerry Theodor, Building Committee Chair
Request for Variance from David Schick 1982 – shed variance
Joe Nicoloff the problem with this is that we do not have the authority to issue that per our covenants. In the Covenants item 2 states no building may be erected prior to the erection of the dwelling house.
Letter from Don Austin 281 Castle Drive requesting buoys
Joe Nicoloff going to forward this to Lake Management Committee.
Covenant Amendment Form, Currently 464 signed, need 712 additional to pass covenants.
Speed Limit Rule
Joe Nicoloff basically from the Rules Committee we had three proposed rule changes. One is very detailed into changing a lot of stuff. Looking through the recommendations from the committees, I came up with a one page document for the speed limit rule. I sent them back out to the committees, I have only received one response so far.
The maximum speed of any watercraft operated on Holiday Lake shall be 55 mph or as defined in the Reckless or Careless Operation section of the Holiday Shores Boating Rules. Operation of said watercraft shall be in a manner that does not create an exaggerated wake. Intentionally ÒPlowingÓ or Òpushing waterÓ at speeds greater than no-wake, but less than those typically maintained while Òon planeÓ, is not permitted. Ref: Board of Directors Meeting, 5-8-13
The maximum speed limit of any watercraft on Holiday Lake shall be 55 mph.
Wakes and Wash
Operation of said watercraft shall be in a manner that does not create an exaggerated wake. Intentionally ÒPlowingÓ or Òpushing waterÓ at speeds greater than no-wake, but less than those typically maintained while Òon planeÓ, is not permitted. Ref: Board of Directors Meeting, 5-8-13
The use of any automatic or manual type of wake building device (i.e. water ballast, wake blades, lead pipes, and other similar devices) is prohibited.
All wake, teak or similar surfing is prohibited.
Darren Onwiler I donÕt think that we need to put in the equipment. ItÕs the action, itÕs the results of the operation of the watercraft that concerned me with. I do like the item at the bottom, prohibited activities, that is black and white, no discussion on that.
Joe Nicoloff one comment I have is that prohibiting the use of this, even though it is at the operators discretion he could be using the water ballast, which creates bigger wakes from my understanding.
Darren Onwiler by what you are telling me, the use of whatever the equipment he has is producing an exaggerated wake. Which is what we are concerned with the exaggerated wakes is not the equipment that develops that wake. So in theory if an operator could use ballast and it doesnÕt produce an exaggerated wake then it is not the equipment.
Joe Nicoloff but isnÕt that the reason for the ballast to create the wake.
Darren Onwiler to modify or change the wake of your boat yes. Whether the wake would be considered exaggerated or not thatÕs again part of the issue of this rule.
Jason Hicks Let me back up a little bit again, because I think that some of the information that I forwarded at the last meeting wasnÕt really addressed at the last meeting. There were four documents. It looks like what you did is the front page of the packet, is yours, and it looks like you condensed three into one. I think what you are possibly doing is over simplifying, when we already have other areas of our community instruments. We have a prohibited watercraft section and you have prohibited activities. Need to make sure we look at all of the community instruments to make sure there is no conflict between them. One of the documents I sent out of the four was more of a total proposed solution. That included the three rule changes but also included some of the points that are being missed here is attempts to approach this as more of a wake control program, more than just passing a rule and making sure everybody follows it. I donÕt know if I am over thinking it or we are trying to simplify a solution for a something that is pretty complex. Include an education program, documented procedures, basically allowing people to understand what Public Safety and the Association is looking for so they are not surprised. Also allow for a seawall section on heights and construction. Look at all the concerns plaguing people. After last meeting I did some more brainstorming such as allowable length limit of boats, going to the next smaller size boat, 20ft instead of 22 ft. Long term approach canÕt hurt. Limit the size of ballast allowed on boats. Just saying there is other options, measuring sticks on lake, or video cameras.
Dave Decker Do you have a recommendation on which rule you would start with?
Jason Hicks If I start writing rules and make a big packet of recommendations, and everyone decide they like the first page, I donÕt have a lot of hours to write this.
Joe Nicoloff that is the reason I went to this, trying to get to the point where we can use these committees recommendations more. Want to keep committees involved.
Jason Hicks I agree and think that we get a lot of good information from them.
Dave Decker so in my opinion whether or not this considered one rule or three rules, but we have recommendation from all three committees to split the rules and whether you split the rule by voting on it as a separate rule or where you put it in the rules, doesnÕt really make a difference in my opinion.
I agree we should use the committees, but we are the ones elected and should make the final decision.
Darren Onwiler if it is clear that wake surfing, teak surfing is the problem, just ban that. I would prefer a clear, very definable rule.
Tony Harris (1222) comments that Jason brought up some really good points, thinks that this is about more than just a rule. Could you not do the same wake as ballast, by adding people to different locations on your boat, more people to back of boat or to one side of the boat.
Jason Hicks absolutely, ballast is a general term, doesnÕt matter whether it is water bags, 1000 lbs of bricks or of people.
Glenn Dalton part of what we are looking at is the attitude of the boat, where the flume is starting to come off, the hull of the water craft, the height of the back deck, and the height of the rooster tail tells us how much weight you have in the back of the boat.
Jason Hicks all boats have a capacity plate.
Ben Kelley (858) Feels that committees should not be closed should be open for whoever wants to be on that committee. States that his boat is rated for 13 people, if I put the legal limit on there, and not has ballast, is he going to be able to use his boat. If I do not use the wake plate on my boat, or they are disallowed, I would then be locked in to the biggest wake my boat would make.
Glenn Dalton depends on the attitude of your water craft and how much water you are pushing.
Dave Decker makes a motion to add a new section to the boating rules, prohibited activities as written. Darren Onwiler, seconds
Darren Onwiler can we in the same sense vote to start the clock on the change to the speed limit rule as well, just as a single one line.
Joe Nicoloff and not keep the wake and wash in there?
Darren Onwiler if we are splitting these into three rules.
Dave Decker so the original proposed rule, was for the speed limit rule to go back to the original. So if we were to just say this section
Darren Onwiler when I made original proposal 2 or 3 months ago was to revert back to the original rule.
Dave Decker So what we have been talking about is the potential revisions to these two sections and while I wasnÕt in favor of the original rule, I think there is a lot of people on the board that would disagree and would want to keep that section. So if you want to vote truly on segregating these, I would say you vote on those two sections and take out the new piece that Joe put in, and just say we are going to segregate them. Then we could make a proposal to make or revise the wake or wash section.
Darren Onwiler we are already splitting out the prohibited activities why not split the wake and wash section as well.
Dave Decker I donÕt know that you will get approval to eliminate that section.
Darren Onwiler I guess I am confused you say you are in favor on separating prohibited activities from the other two.
Dave Decker because that was not part of the original rule.
Darren Onwiler we are all in agreement that the speed limit rule should be separated out.
Dave Decker you could say that but it would remove the wake/wash section.
Jason Hicks I donÕt think it will hurt anything to leave it as is until we have something we agree upon, right now it is not as clean as it should be, and general consensus is that it needs to be broken out into two, but until we have the second part of that, this isnÕt hurting anything.
Darren Onwiler disagrees, because that is why we have been having all these meetings, opposition on both sides to that section and how it is written.
Jason Hicks if we split off now, we will not have that section, other than IDNR rules.
Darren Onwiler just for the record, I am not trying to kill the wash/wake section of that, just trying to get something done.
Glenn Dalton IDNR says you are responsible for your wake.
Jason Hicks so what you are saying is that this rule doesnÕt matter?
Glenn Dalton I can still enforce it under IDNR rules.
Jason Hicks my conversation with IDNR I gathered something a little bit different than that, in that yes there is subjectivity and officer discretion involved but as far as determining what is hazardous or dangerous, you have to see it and the damage cause by that wake/wash. Not see the wake itself, but see the damage. Proof would fall on the property owner at that point.
Glenn Dalton that is why we are using video, so both sides may use it.
Jason Hicks if that is coming from IDNR, I think IDNR officer should come to meeting and explain and answer questions.
Jason Hicks would like to mention that the Office is doing a Food and Toy Drive that runs from October 1 to December .
Dave Decker makes motions to adjourn to executive session, Alan Huelsmann seconds.
Meeting Adjourns at 8:49 P.M.
October 9 Boarding Meeting re-opened
Dave Decker motions to approved the September 25, 2013 meeting minutes, Darren Onwiler seconds
Darren Onwiler motions to adjourn, Alan Huelsmann seconds.
Meeting Adjourns at 9:35 p.m.
Meeting minutes submitted by Michael Parker.