Date: September 25, 2013
Present: David Decker, Joe Nicoloff, Jason Hicks, Gary Kluckman, Michael Parker, Alan Huelsman. and Darren Onwiler
Quorum Present: Yes
Holishor Members Present: 10
Glenn Dalton and Angie Basham of the Holishor Office
Meeting called to order at 7:30 PM
Pledge of Allegiance Recited
Board Meeting Minutes of September 11, 2013
Action: tabled, will be approved at next meeting.
Transfers of Property - two transfers
Letter from Stacy Pace requesting waiver of ballroom fees for local school trivia night
Dave Decker we have historically approved waiving just rental fees.
Action:.Dave Decker motions to approve, Darren Onwiler seconds, motion carried
Letter from Sandy Bonfigilio thanking the Beacon Inn
Letter to commend the Beacon Inn for the beautiful room that was set up for the High Tea Party. On behalf of Holiday Shores thanks both Gilligans and The Beacon Inn for giving Holiday Shores excellent choices for dinning.
Covenant Amendment Approval
Joe Nicoloff we are still approximately 750 short. The committee will meet again on Thursday October 3rd in the office. Any volunteers are welcome. Door to door or phone campaign is next, hope to have it done by the end of year.
Joe Nicoloff everyone has a map in their packets. This is from the Lake Management Committee. Basically what you are seeing is the Green buoys are the new no wake buoys.
Lake Committee Recommendations Concerning Placement of Buoys
September 6, 2013
This report is submitted in response to the Board President's request that our committee review members requests for the placement of buoys.
On September 4, members of our committee accompanied by association staff, were on the lake to review these requests. We used a range finder to make several measurements.
Request from lot 1354 (on Biscay): We recommend that two 75 foot shoreline buoys be installed, one in the vicinity of lot 1354 on the eastern side of this property and one across San Juan Cove on the opposite shoreline. Installing two buoys will give boat operators an improved line of sight for safe operation in this area.
Request from lot 1827 (on Port Lane): We do not recommend the placement of an additional shore line buoy in this area. As we lined up from the nearest shoreline buoy to the south of this property and proceeded on a course northbound in line with the next buoy, we passed approximately 82 feet from this property. Adequate sightlines exist in this area; consequently, we do not recommend the addition of a shore line buoy in this portion of the lake.
Requests from lots 343/344 in Jib Cove: We made a number of measurements in Jib and Tunnel Coves to support our recommendations. These coves are commonly referred to as "ski coves" and receive a significant amount of towing traffic, particularly in the vicinity of the "party shack" with many operators making power turns while towing. The "no wake" buoy in Tunnel Cove is placed where the cove is 255 feet wide. After taking a variety of measurements in a variety of locations, we believe the following standards should be adopted:
Minimum cove width for full operation 250 feet. Minimum cove width for "ski in and ski out" 200 feet. Any cove widths less than 200 feet, should be no wake. When we make these width recommendations, we are taking measurements from shoreline to shoreline, not taking into account parked boats, and lifts.
The Jib Cove width at the current no wake buoy is 174 feet. The cove width at lot 344 ranges from 196 to 216 feet. Rather than installing shoreline buoys at lots 343/344, we recommend moving the no wake buoy to a point near lot 344 where the cove width is a minimum of 200 feet. We are recommending the placement of two shoreline buoys at lots 281 and C1990 to replace buoys/markers placed by homeowners some time ago. An additional shoreline buoy at 347. These additional buoys should do an adequate job of creating appropriate site fixtures for watercraft operators. Jib Cove needs to be designated as a ski in/ski out cove.
As a result of taking many measurements, we recommend the installation of another buoy in Anchor Cove (the ski cove on the extreme southwest portion of the lake) in the vicinity of Lot 51C to match a shoreline buoy currently installed on the opposite shoreline of this cove. As a final thought, the placement of shoreline buoys seems to be an activity coordinated between the Lake Committee and Association staff and not have to go before the board. If the board like to minimize the issues it addresses.
Joe Nicoloff needless to say the buoys will probably not be put in until next spring. We will hold this off until next meeting.
Dave Decker I do want to address something in the very last part of that. It said that it should be between the committee and the office. I disagree with that completely, the placement of the buoys needs to come to the Board and approved by the Board.
Joe Nicoloff agrees that anything within the lake needs Board approval.
Dave Decker just laying the ground work. I donŐt plan approving anything that has a ski in/ski out.
Joe Nicoloff basically Glenn has been using this video as part of the training tool for Public Safety. What is an acceptable wake and what is not. Wanted to play video so everyone could see.
Glenn Dalton These are some of the videoŐs that we use to train our Public Safety Staff. A lot of it is boat attitude, how far the water is up on the boat, how deep in the water the boat is sitting down in the water, and then the rooster tail up. You can also see the wakes coming in from the boat. The video tape is only part of the process. It will be taken to the hearing committee. We are still putting together our instructional video. For the video itself we will have several types of boats, wake, hulled, ski, and bass boats.
Dave Decker of those boats how many were considered acceptable and unacceptable.
Glenn Dalton – we had two in this tape that we consider unacceptable. We have to have video that way it is not so subjective. A lot of the problem that we are having, is that boaters donŐt realize just how much wake they are producing. I think that will be an education process as well.
Jason Hicks looking at that video, I have some issues and concerns. What you pointed to and considered as unacceptable. I donŐt think I agree with that, the intent of the rule was to disallow wake surfing. And if you see someone out there that has a wake acceptable for wake surfing it is considerably different from those boats that we just saw and I think that most of those are relatively the same or pretty close.
Glenn Dalton they are pretty close.
Joe Nicoloff you can see on those two that were not acceptable, the waves at the side were different.
Jason Hicks this is where trying to write a really good rule, has been lost somewhere in the translation.
Joe Nicoloff two committees have looked at the rule and agree with the rule.
Jason Hicks I agreed with the rule as well, but if it is being enforced the way I have just seen, maybe the interpretation is different.
Glenn Dalton makes a recommendation to take the video to the committees and see what their thoughts are.
Jason Hicks there has been some comments made that not all types of skiing can be done behind all types of boats. An example would be if you have a wake board boat, and you are teaching a beginning skier, you are going to throw off a lot of wake.
Darren Onwiler I think JasonŐs point is that the rule was written for a vehicle intentionally plowing water. JasonŐs point that is that a jon boat or wave runner plowing water is in no way going to generate enough wake. So Jason concern is with this, is the way that it is being interpreted that it is targeting a specific type of boat.
I do agree with the video being a useful training aid for the Security Officers, citation process to be used by both sides, and it is above and beyond what IDNR uses. We havenŐt completed our video yet, but making strides to do so. If the intention is extremely large wakes from i.e. wake surfing, why mess around, just ban the specific activity.
Joe Nicoloff when this was originally introduced, the wake surfing we talked about just doing that, but people started talking about that we were banning one type of boat. We are getting back to banning of particular boat and that is why the rule was crafted that way.
Jason Hicks that is not why it was crafted that way, it was crafted that way because the act of being drug by a boat on a surf board is not the problem, it is the way the boat is being operated. Weighed down and driven slowly.
Glenn Dalton what we were trying to do is look at a specific rule and the way it was written, and find a way for the best way for us to enforce it. That is how it was determined that the attitude of the boat was important, we donŐt care what you are doing, that is what we are evaluating.
Jason Hicks there was a specific request of the office and public safety to treat this summer as more of an educational period.
Speed Limit Rule
September 18, 2013
Rocky Lane - Chairman of the Boating Committee
Re: Response to Rules and Bylaw Committee Wake Position Comments
In summary, the Boating Committee continues to recommend that the intent of the existing Speed Limit Rule passed by the Board of Directors on May 8, 2013 not be changed. The Boating Committee recommended in August, 2013 that the prohibited use of wake making devices be approved by the Board and included in the appropriate section Boating Rules as noted below.
Below are the Boating CommitteeŐs comments and recommendations by section:
Proposed Speed Limit Rule
Move the Speed Limit verbiage of 55 mph to Reckless and Careless Operation since it is referenced in the existing rule. State the following as the first bullet point: No watercraft of any type should be operated at a speed greater than 55 mph.
Proposed Wakes and Wash
1. The reference of a type of ski activity should not be stated. If it is decided by the Board to list the ski activity, we recommend that all be listed (wake, teak and etc.) that require large wakes.
2. Revise the wording back to Ňoriginal ruleÓ approved by the Board on May 8, 2013 as follows: Operation of any watercraft shall be in a manner that does not create an exaggerated wake. Intentional "plowing" or "pushing water" at speeds greater than no-wake, but less than those typically maintained while "on plane" is not permitted.
Letter in Holiday Times - Paragraph
Eliminate the last two sentences. To leave them in will be controversial. Teaching someone to ski with an unacceptable wake caused by a boat design should not be considered acceptable.
Proposed Prohibited Watercraft/Devices
1. Eliminate the entire ŇnoteÓ on the last bullet. The wording of the ŇnoteÓ indicates that the features and enhancements are not prohibited as the Boating Committee recommended they should be.
2. If and when the Board approves the Boating CommitteeŐs August, 2013 recommendation add as follows: The use of any type of wake building device (i.e. water ballast, wake blades, lead pipes, and other similar devices) is prohibited.
3. Remove parasails or jet packs.
Lakes Committee – Roger Groth, Chairman
My committee members concur in the change to the speed portion. As a committee we have concensus that wake and teak surfing should be prohibited activities. As to the use of a "noteÓ to address enhanced wake none of us believe this should be called a note. It is a rule. Our committee still has a majority opinion that wake enhancing devices should be prohibited. Thanks for the opportunity to comment. Roger
Monte Thus (6) recommendation getting boats with skiers all in the same frame, you can tell by where the water hits the skier with ballas and without ballas. I agree with you that we have a handful that are making it tough for the rest of us. Need to get one of the wake board boats, and load it up, it will give you a truer picture. The loaded up wake boats really put out a wake, compare to a non-loaded up.
Glenn Dalton – that is exactly what we are going to do for the video.
Joe Nicoloff on these wake board boats, these bladders and full ballas used with the intent of making a bigger wake? Are wedges used more for shaping a wake?
Monte Thus (6) Yes for bigger wake and yes for shaping a wake.
Jerry Theodore (1346) Lake Committee recommended banning the use of these devices, not banning the device itself.
Darren Onwiler – ballas and wake plates, the wake plate changes the shape of the wake, not the size. The wake plate that comes on my boat adjusts automatically depending on the speed of the boat. If device was prohibited for use on this lake, I would have to unbolt the wake plate.
Jerry Theodore (1346) In my opinion those automatic wake plates are probably the least cause of anything that is enhancing on a wake boat, they are trim tabs. I would say that those probably donŐt affect it all that much. It is the ballas, the attitude of the boat and these new plow shares, those are the dangerous items as far as wake is concerned in my opinion.
Jason Hicks the reason the rule was written was regardless of the activity behind the boat.
Rich Hertel (679) key words are intentionally pushing or plowing of water. As a boat owner they know if they are intentionally plowing water. Wake making devices, devices designed to plow water.
Ben Kelley (1824) because not yet defined is why tickets havenŐt been issued.
Joe Roth (1032) the wake off of the rocks high as vertical walls and the public docks rocking because of the wakes.
Jason Hicks based on conversation with IDNR officer, since this is a Holiday Shores rule, IDNR cannot enforce Holishor Rules. Wake or wash is based on circumstances; you have to be able to determine who is responsible. The example officer gave was a broken window, you have to see who threw the rock. This activity is at the IDNR officer discretion.
Jim Perotti (1407) I havenŐt heard this brought up before, but Maintenance is starting to find broken pieces of docks out in the lakes, including full sets of stairs, full docks, 4 x 6, 2 x 12, those are coming from some place. We are delivering more and more rip rap each year for people to maintain their seawalls, We sell R3 and R4, and if you put R3 on this lake, and you have this wake action, it is moving. The Dredge has a hard time, with rocks in the path of the dredge. There are other things being damaged and that needs to be looked at.
Rich Hertel (679) Voiced concerns that two of the board members own wake board boats and may be too close to the issue.
Rocky Lane (1047) in my opinion existing boats should be allowed to stay, devices shouldnŐt be used and any new wake boats should not be allowed here. Also, just so everybody knows, as chairman of the Boating committee, my job description is I call meetings, I take information from the board that they want discussed, I put an agenda together, I have a time limit on my meetings, the secretary put the information discussed in the minutes, and we pass on that information to the board. And so far I have not voiced an opinion on anything, because I am the chairman, I havenŐt voted on anything, I do interject some of my personal feelings, but the committee is the one that makes the decisions.
Jason Hicks I read an article on Paddle Passes. The State is also requiring life jackets be worn by everyone who is using watercraft of any kind. I checked with IDNR, and they said if the watercraft is transporting a person as the primary means of transportation on the water, the person must have a wearable personal flotation device.
Dave Decker so if I am paddling a canoe I have to have a life jacket?
Jason Hicks I asked if that included kayaks, stand-up paddle boards, and tubes that are not being towed. And his reply was that inner tubes may have been made exempt as a pool toy, but everything else counts.
Glenn Dalton we have not heard of this change. We will check into this.
Dave Decker I donŐt know if the Social Committee has spoke to the office yet, but I have been hearing rumors that they do not have any volunteers to run the breakfast with Santa or Halloween party. So if anyone knows of anyone that would like to help make these events happen. Contact the Social Committee.
Angie Basham – I believe that Kerri McCann has agreed to chair the Halloween event, but still needs volunteers to help. Breakfast with Santa the last we heard did not have anyone to Chair and not enough help.
Dave Decker motions to adjourn to executive session, Alan Huelsman seconds.
Meeting Adjourns at 9:22 p.m.
Meeting minutes submitted by Michael Parker