Date: July 24, 2013
Present: David Decker, Joe Nicoloff, Jason Hicks, Gary Kluckman, Michael Parker, Alan Huelsman. and Darren Onwiler
Quorum Present: Yes
Holishor Members Present: 20
Glenn Dalton and Shannon Mitchlar Holishor Office
Meeting called to order at 7:30 PM
Pledge of Allegiance Recited
Board Meeting Minutes of July 10, 2013
Jason Hicks motions to approve, Dave Decker seconds.
Action: Motion carries with minor changes
Transfers of Property - two transfers
Gabe Herman & Alec Hester (1387 Biscay) requesting permission to sell snow cones at clubhouse.
Joe Nicoloff Is this something that Social Committee should be sponsoring?
Kathy Austin (281) I guess it is something that we can look into.
Joe Nicoloff all in agreement, but feels that it is something that social committee would sponsor.
Glenn Dalton it was taken to the social committee, and it is something that the committee didnŐt want to do. That is why they wrote a letter to the board.
Kathy Austin (281) as the new Social Committee president it is something that we can take another look at.
Dave Decker Is in favor of it. thinks it would be good if it was managed by Social Committee, however if they donŐt want to manage it. Thinks it is a good idea.
Gerry Theodor (1346) He did offer 10% which is the normal thing. Could be considered a fund raiser for Social Committee.
Nancy Yates (291) Normally the way we handle events if we do make any money, it all goes back into the social committee fund.
Action – none taken
Joe Nicoloff what has been discussed so far, last week there was a radio ad that stated lakapalooza was happening here at Holiday Shores this coming Saturday. Contacted radio station. Right now we have know idea how many additional people we may have coming in.
Glenn Dalton protecting the Association from things of this nature is going to be very difficult to do. In order for us to ensure that the event is for members and their guests only. Our recommendation was establishing check point and issuing yellow arm bands for members, blue for guests. At the check point members will be called to come get their guests. If member contact can not be made, guests will be turned away. The other proposal was from Dawn Schmidt and Mark Huntley that a check point be set up and when the guest is queried need to be able to provide name and lot number of member.
Dawn Schmidt (372) If you have been to lakeapalooza you know we can not expect members to get off their boats to come and get guests. We know we are going to have to do things differently, arm bands for next year. This year, we didnŐt advertise to keep it low key. Mark Huntly is going to sit at the check point, and he will know who belongs there and who doesnŐt. There will be a shuttle this year.
Mark Huntly (17) I have some history in Holiday Shores. Lakeapoolza is by far the biggest social event out here. The bar is open to the public. We donŐt advertise this event because we donŐt want outside people in our back yard. Even before this problem we have a system in place to keep these people out. Fishing Club give me a tremendous amount of support. The bands end at 7 p.m. the marina shuts down at 10 p.m. We want all boats out of cove by dark. DonŐt think it is fair to ask Glenn or Angie to come in on their day off. Has been put on Facebook for members only. Their will be people who are turned away.
Joe Nicoloff one thing that caught my attention was when you said you are a public facility. That is not in your deed.
Mark Huntly (17) Years ago when we got our liquor license the board at that time approved that we could be open to the public as the Beacon Inn is.
Joe Nicoloff Beacon Inn is not open to the public either.
Dave Decker lets stay focused on Lakeapoolza.
Mark Huntly (17) I donŐt want all these outsiders here anymore than you do. Has a mess on his hands right now.
Dawn Schmidt (372) You do understand by turning people away, can cause its own set of problems. We are not sure how many additional people will show up. But will have some upset members if there guest is turned away. It will eliminate some of those people.
Dave Decker sounds like you are both in agreement with putting up some kind of check in.
Mark Huntly (17) absolutely
Dawn Schmidt (372) and in hind sight we think the arm band is a great idea for next year. Start advertising in March that you have to get an arm band or you donŐt get in.
Jason Hicks what I am hearing is that both parties both think there should be some sort of check point, not sure why both parties arenŐt working to come together to figure out a solution.
Dawn Schmidt (372) that is were Mark comes in to play, willing to stand there with Angie or Glenn or the public safety officer. Mark knows a lot of the people that come to the marina on a regular basis.
Glenn Dalton We needed to come up with a plan that only members and their guests can come in. We can work with whatever is decided. We will try and do the best job we can meeting the criteria.
Jason Hicks is there a reason why the arm bands are a good idea for next year, but not for this year.
Dawn Schmidt (372) Too short of a time frame to get them handed out for this year.
Dave Decker Need to take a step back. We all want to make sure that the right people get in. Sounds like you would be okay with Mark approve people to come in. The idea of me getting off my boat to come and get people at the gate are just not a good plan.
Nancy Yates (291) what about a guest list from members.
Darren Onwiler part of the issue we are having is getting the word out there that there has been a change and letting people know of that change. Make people aware of the check point, make announcement through out the day to please fill out a guest list if you have guests attending. If this is done ahead of time, that would keep people from having to get off there boat. That gives accountability.
Dawn Schmidt (372) all these ideas are wonderful, is also asking that Mark Huntly be allowed to approve people to come in, that he knows are guests of members.
Jason Hicks guest are supposed to be with their members anyway, leaning towards list.
Ben Kelly (1824) Feels that if people know name of member and lot number that should be sufficient.
Karen Ravetta (851) How many guests are each member allowed?
Joe Nicoloff 30
Glenn Dalton we are starting at 6:00 a.m. to ensure that all boats are all legal.
Gary Kluckman this event is no different than any other event. Beach party for example you have people that donŐt belong here, people playing volleyball, no check point at that event. Members should make an effort to make a list for Mark.
Action: Dave Decker motions to approve using Mark and security in addition to lists, Darren Onwiler seconds.
Covenant Amendment Approval
Joe Nicoloff after last meeting we had approved a Charter Covenant Amendment Committee since that time they have already gotten 66 signatures.
Boat Dock Rule - is on the website going to vote/can vote on that the first meeting in August.
Speed Limit Rule the three committees have been meeting on this, have asked the committee chairs to have recommendations in by the Thursday before the first meeting in August.
Jason Hicks (1995) There is a paddle pass law in Illinois that was recently passed. Illinois Natural Resource Officials are now requiring passes for the use of non-motorized watercraft around the state. Beginning July 1st, 2013 a paddle pass is required to use watercraft such as Kayaks, Canoes and inner tubes on all public waterways. People stopped with out a paddle pass maybe cited as much as $120. The state is also now requiring lifejackets to be worn by everyone who is using watercraft of any kind.
Fishing Committee Chairman
Joe Nicoloff we need to appoint a new chair to that committee. We have spoke to Mike Wesley, and he has agreed to chair the Fishing Committee
Gary Kluckman makes motion to appoint Mike Wesley as the Fishing
Committee Chair, Darren Onwiler seconds
Glenn Dalton we are going to be starting on the pugmill, chip and seal in a couple weeks. The asphalt will be conducted in August. There has been some question as to the way we use the rollers. If you get a 10 ton roller out there and it has vibratory system on it and if I turn that vibratory system on we would be compacting at a rate of 26,000 tons. Pugmill road yes, chip and seal no. Will break up the road.
Roger Rawson (1851) you have said before that you have pre-meeting then you have meetings and I understand executive sessions to discuss legal issues. I have an issue with this pre-meeting. It is not announced and it is not opened to the membership, would like to see all meeting before membership, because sometimes you go to pre-meeting and it appears that you have already decided, and are not going to engage the membership. It looks bad. Asks the board to follow the Sunshine Law.
Joe Nicoloff pre-meetings were started in the 1990Ős, basically what a pre-meeting is for is for the lake manager to talk to the board what is going on with the community for us to get informed, basically we meet every two weeks.
I am in contact with the lake manager several times a week, but most board members are not. We do bring up questions on the agenda items, if a board member has a question to the lake manager about a particular item or needs further information on that item, that is when it is given. No decisions are ever made at a pre-meeting, no votes are ever made.
Roger Rawson (1851) I personally would like to see all that discussion out in the open.
Kris Williams (7) How do I go about getting a 75 ft buoy marker off my point?
Glenn Dalton send to the office and then will be presented to the board.
Kris Williams (7) it seemed for a while that Jason was putting the meeting agendaŐs on the facebook page. Is there anywhere else that the agenda was posted. Is there a time frame of when it is supposed to be posted. Can we put the agenda on the website.
Jason Hicks I was actually getting some heat from various sources on that.
Kris Williams (7) Minutes in the Holiday Times are not the full version and may not have both sides to a discussion and a bigger disclaimer is needed.
Dave Decker takes offense to the phraseology used. The idea that it only represents one side of a discussion is not a fair statement. Minutes by definition are not a word for word recording of the meeting.
Joe Nicoloff basically minutes are voted on, we try to make our best effort to include all bullet points, but sometimes people ramble on for an entire page.
Glenn Dalton they are the official voted on minutes. I understand where you are going with this. ThatŐs why we record every meeting. The member has the capability to come in to the office and listen to the minutes at any time in there entirety.
Kris Williams (7) Likes the idea of following the sunshine law like the social committee does. I like that it is really open.
Karen Ravetta (851) speed limit law, three different committees discussing it. I really thought by coming to this meeting tonight that it would be discussed. So once the committees come up with it, will that be it? Thought this was going to be on the agenda until this issue is settled.
Joe Nicoloff well if you were at the last meeting, I gave the committee a list of five different things to go through. So that way they could come back to us with their recommendations on each one of the five subjects. That way we are comparing apples to apples from the three committees. No response from the committees as of yet.
Karen Ravetta (851) so when these committees all give there opinions, will they be presenting them at a meeting so we can all hear their opinions.
Joe Nicoloff yes, that is what we are hoping for, first meeting in August.
Karen Ravetta (851) The posting of the agenda would be great, because I am not able to make every meeting.
Dan Corey (978) Kris I am there with you, a little confused as to what the minutes are. How can we publish a more accurate transcript of the meeting. An actual exchange of words, without edit.
Joe Nicoloff as far as I know they are accurate, havenŐt seen anything that was inaccurate.
Darren Onwiler and each board member votes to approve them, we are elected by you, and you are entrusting us to try and represent this fairly. When read the minutes prior to the meeting as we did now, we corrected anything that we thought was not correct.
Dan Corey (978) so we have the rights as members to say we want to see them before hand and say what is accurate and whats not? Is the audio recording released prior to this?
Glenn Dalton the minutes are not released until the board has approved them and that includes the audio.
Dan Corey (978) so you are saying that the minutes that are published exactly what is recorded during the meetings.
Glenn Dalton first the office listens to the transcript, and we type them, they go to the secretary, and the secretary looks at them. If the secretary sees a part that is just running on and on and on, they will put Ňconversation ensuesÓ and that is pretty common in any place where you do minutes. Now as the secretary is looking at the minutes and reviewing, he is listening to the audio version and if he disagrees or if a board member says no this point was left out we need to have that in there, the board secretary corrects. At any time after the approval process, if the member objects, the member can come in and listen to the official minutes and you can transcribe them, and bring them to the board and in open session at next meeting, can disagree with it.
Dan Corey (978) Thank you Glenn I was unaware of the process.
Joe Roth (1030) These men were elected by the people, and I served on the board of elections and I had to beg, borrow, and steal, and some times we didnŐt have enough people to run for the board. So they do the best they can, they are not slick politicians, would bet not one has a degree in law, so cut them a little slack. One thing that I do agree with Roger is that I would like to see is that you guys not meet down stairs, I would like to hear all that Glenn has to tell you about whatŐs on the agenda. Do you have a little knowledge?
Pam Maibaum (2088) I think that we are all hinting at the same thing and that is that we feel like as members we are not completely kept in the loop on everything that you guys are discussing. That was my whole purpose of creating that facebook site, since then have lost my impartiality, so I have discussed with Glenn how we can better communicate with our members besides the Holiday Times. Glenn had said that he was going to check into the ability for emails addresses to be given to the office, so when things come up such as lakeapoolza, if we had everyoneŐs email this wouldnŐt be an issue. Asks for an update on that.
Glenn Dalton we are putting together a list of what we currently have and then we will solicit more because we have about 20% of the memberships emails, we have requested them in the past.
Pam Maibaum (2088) how will that request come, holiday times, website.
Glenn Dalton we will put it on your facebook, holiday times, marquis, website, where ever we can.
Pam Maibaum (2088) Feels like the board frowns upon Facebook, however the power of Facebook is amazing, and for them to deny themselves the ability to reach their membership in a split second, needs to be examined. Can set up your own site in matter of 5 minutes. Encourages the board to look at facebook as a way to communicate with membership.
Joe Nicoloff right now there are no discussions on using that.
Darren Onwiler for information it is a great site, however as Pam pointed, if it was set up for information purpose. It would not be able to have any kind of discussion on there or allow for comments. Whether that be a community member or a board member because I wouldnŐt be able to speak on any other board members behalf. Agrees that something should be set up on social media sites for that purpose.
Roger Rawson (1851) Facebook as been said before, most people have facebook now. These comments that are made at the meetings and the verbal exchange that is made, is it possible that we could have a stenographer put it on the computer.
David Decker we could do that, we actually had a guy give us a bid to do that, the Association has to be willing to pay for that.
Glenn Dalton the only problem with that is the guy that gave us the bid died.
Jason Hicks what you are kind of looking at here, not to say we canŐt look into it. There is a voice to text software and is improving, however, there is a lot of issues in a forum like this with a lot of different voices and volumes.
Based on our rules, members in good standing, and a login for that, according to the rules. Someone would have to constantly update that site, plus make sure the information is all uploaded.
Glenn Dalton depends on the length of the meetings. We have the voice to type, and the problem we have is people talking over each other, and that makes it a very difficult time with different voices. A lot cheaper for our secretary to type than a stenographer to do it.
Dave Corey (978) brought up digital recording via email. How many lawsuits is the Association currently faced with?
Joe Nicoloff not by our rules, the rules are very specific. Currently 3 lawsuits.
Gerry Theodor (1346) If I was an elected member of a board and as distrusted as you folks are. I would resign.
Jason Hicks motions to adjourn to executive session, David Decker seconds.
Meeting Adjourns at 9:17 p.m.
Meeting minutes submitted by Michael Parker